UNION
Submitted by Betsy on Wed, 04/30/2008 - 17:21
I work in a union environment and I'm glad that I do. During my first 6 or so years of employment, I never paid much attention to union issues. Never went to the monthly meetings and only showed up when there was something big to discuss. That was until my employer did something to me that violated our collective agreement. Suddenly I became interested. In fact, I think that's probably how most people become union activists.
I decided that if these folks were negotiating my salary, benefits etc, I'd like to have a say in that.
To put a spin on John F. Kennedy's quote "ask not what your union can do for you, but what you can do for your union".
A union is only as strong as its members.
We are currently in contract negotiations. At our first meeting to discuss what the bargaining committe would be asking for (based on surveys they had sent out months before), about 150 (that's generous) showed up at the meeting. We have over 1000 members. I just don't get that. I think that's a whole different story in itself.
But what I'm thinking about now, is how it's so easy to expect so much and want more and more and more.
General Motors in Oshawa Ontario just laid off another 1,000 workers. An entire shift gone. I wonder what the unions part in that is?
Many years ago, the CAW negotiated for full benefits to be paid to retirees and their spouses until death. The current cost of this for GM exceeds what they currently spend on salaries.
Hey, I think benefits after retirement would be great. My dad has that (not from GM)and its such a huge burden lifted from them and from the family. 30 or 40 years ago, that wasn't an unreasonable request. Things were very different.
My union is asking for the same thing. They're asking for it because the members, comprised largely of baby boomers who are facing retirement, asked for it. I asked for it too. Damn right I did. I suspect most of our managers are hoping that we get it because then they'll get it too!
But, lets face it. How realistic is this?
If my union were successful in getting benefits for retirees, what would that mean 10-20 years down the road?
It's so easy for us as union members to sit back and say that we work so hard and we deserve this and deserve that. Yes, we do.
But what if that means putting our employer out of business?
Right now there are debates going on about who's fault it is that the auto industry is in such a mess. A greedy employer or a greedy union?
If you ask me, I think its a bit of both. It's a shame that union and management can't work together to the same end...which would be the success of the company and the fair and equitable treatment of employees.
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Unions
It may seem ironic that I, a long time member of management, believe strongly in the union concept. While not all upper management executives are devoid of compassion or common sense there are enough of them around to make it a necessity to have a strong union influence on the other side which helps to create a balance. In the private sector there are checks and balances that in theory should drive the management and union to negotiate towards the benefit of both the employees and the Company owners, shareholders etc. For example if the Company is making money then there is an impetus towards higher wages, benefits etc. If the Company's fortunes are in the other direction then lower wages, concessions etc will be on the table. However the concept of public sector unions is another issue. There are no such checks and balances and these unions as well as those of Crown Corporations can always demand more ( see OPG ) and more because there are few if not any economic measurements to judge the value (rate of return) of what they receive for what they do. The revenue side of the equation is taxes and therefore nothing but political consequences can ever be the fallout. Those of us in the private sector would love all of the benefits that government employees enjoy ( pensions, health, vacation etc etc ) but alas our's must be paid for by commerce and the marketplace, not just another dip of the hand into the taxpayers pocket.
Unions
Remember that the "dip of the hand into the taxpayer's pocket" is what pays for your roads, traffic signals, bridges, daycare centres, many different social services, school dental programs and a whole array of health programs, public health inspectors and nurses, paramedics,teachers and education programs and the list goes on and on. We expect our Regional, Provincial and Federal goverments to provide money for all of these services and executing these services doesn't come for free.
My dad's dad was a train station master and my dad watched my Grandma sneaking food out to the hobos that jumped the trains in the '30s (much to Grandpa's dismay) That must have taught my dad something though because he instilled in me a social conscience and a firm understanding that if we expect government to provide us with services, then we need to pay taxes. In a nutshell, I was taught that I am my brother's keeper.
Don't get me wrong, taxes sure hurt this single mother. But I don't for a second begrudge having to pay them because in doing so I'm lucky enough to live in one of the best countries in the world.
It concerns me that you feel that public sector unions just ask for more and more without thought to the consequences for the corporation. In my experience on a public sector union executive and attendance at many union conventions, that is simply not true.
Further, I don't understand why you feel that there are no "checks and balances" for public sector unions. Our finance departments and councils/legislatures are doing that. Every penny that comes to me as a public employee is scrutinized. Not only by the in house checks and balances, but by the public!!
There are economic measurements to judge the rate of return for the services we offer. That's why contracting out is becoming so popular. Of course, the politicians look to the cost and they decide if it's cheaper to get the work done outside,and if so they do it.
That's why governments workers are inspired to work hard so that they can prove that their work is the work that is the most valuable. Public sector unions drive that home to their members....prove that our work is the best.
Your views on private sector unions is interesting. Not because you worked in management. In fact I know many managers in both private and public sector that feel the balance a union can bring is helpful. Its interesting because I see how private sector unions can often be unnecessary. I worked in the private sector early in my career. We were asked by management 'what do we need to provide for you to keep a union out'. I've heard that story from others. My ex worked for a company for many years and it was the same thing. When the company did well they were very generous to employees. When the company didn't, people sucked it up and knew that if they worked even harder for the company that maybe they would turn a profit and would be rewarded.
As for the benefits I receive as a public employee....I don't for one second ever deny that I am a very lucky person. I work hard and I have very good benefits and I so appreciate that.
But don't fault me for that. Like I said, it can work both ways.
I know a number of people in the private sector who, during good times for the company, do very very well. More than I'll ever see.
And here's something I'll throw out as one last parting thought....if working for the government is so lucrative, then why are THE most outstanding leaders in our country not working for the governmen? I'll tell you why...because they will earn a whole lot more in the private sector than ever would in government....even as PM. But hey, that's a whole other story!!!!
The last comment on this subject its too close to home.
It is difficult to clarify one's points on this type of subject in a few words but I will try. First, my comments were aimed at the unions not the public service employees. There are many personal and individual examples that could be used to debate this subject on both sides but I am truing to look at it from 10,000 ft in the air or in other words "the large picture scenario". Employees in the private sector are entitled to get whatever the market will bear. This marketplace is (or should be if we can keep the government out of the picture) the overall guiding factor in determining compensation. In the Public Service there is no marketplace. The only revenue comes from taxpayers in one form or another. Therefore there are very few looming economic consequences to the union when forcing government negotitators to agree to their demands. A strike of course doesn't affect the government negotiators as they are not direct financial stakeholders in the government. A strike penalizes the public directly in many of the services that you pointed out above and usually businesses and commerce as well. The government may lose money in the short term but if more is needed where does it come from????? Political consequences are the only negative result and which politician would want to take on the unions in the left wing environment permeatiing the entire media in this day and age. Ask Mike Harris how he feels after trying to instill some accountability and common sense in a few of these unions. He was vilified, crucified and is still being blamed for things that happen today after being out of office for 10+ years.
Last I don't believe I said that it is lucrative to work for the government however there are many well paid people within the government who make lots of money, spend like drunken sailors and believe they are the smartest leaders in the world but I must admit they do not call themselves workers.......they are politicians!!!
too close to home
I don't think there is a corporation anywhere that hasn't experienced a leader spending like a drunken sailor who believes he is the smartest leader in the world. That's just my guess but in my experience, there are politicians everywhere... so I think it's a safe guess.
You imply that this is exclusive to government and I beg to differ. There are 'politicians' in both private and public sector my friend. In fact, I'll venture to say that there are politicians in unions.
You say that in public service there is no marketplace and so the only revenue comes from the taxpayers. But what of the services that they get for their tax dollars? Its a different purchase/service agreement but it is still just exactly that!
So NO the consequences of a public sector strike are MORE than just political....they touch the every day services that we all too often take for granted. The looming ecomonic consequences of a public strike are far reaching.
When General Motors goes on strike, the feeder companies are hit, the small business owners who do landscaping, housecleaning and the list goes on and on.........they all suffer because GM workers are out. They can't pay their gardener, housekeeper...whatever.
The feeder companies who do auto shipping etc can't keep their staff. The public suffers....our local economy suffers....from a private company strike or lay off.
Look at big city transit strikes. Is the public not suffering?
Please...both government and big business has a stake in public well being.
The general public suffers during both public and big private company strikes
I don't think I'll even bother getting into your Mike Harris references, because before him , Bob Rae tried to instill some 'common sense'(social contract) into the unions and propose that we were all in this together....which is what unions are supposed to be about....and today, like your Harris, he is being cruficied and blamed for things that happened 17 years ago.
You started your comment by clarifying that your comments were aimed at unions and not the public service workers.
Well, we public service workers, are our union.
Public unions
First I have to say that I disagree with your premise that corporate leaders are politicians. They couldn't survive much less have any success in business if they were of a political nature. I've been there so trust me it doesn't work. If you try and please everyone you will fail. Secondly there is no question that there are politicans in unions, Unions are political organizations! Third with all due respect you do not understand the market place if you believe that public services are the same. In the marketplace you shop for the best quality and price you can get and then make a decision. In the public sector you get what the government gives you. You have no say, you have no choice and you have no options. Fourth, you miss the point on the economic consequences, of course there are consequences but they are not borne by the union negotiators or the govt. negotiators. In the private sector if the union's strike or the Companies lock out, the ultimate negative consequence could be the shutdown of the business and the loss of all jobs (including the negotiators). This could never happen in the public sector. Of course the public suffers but unlike shareholders who can turf people out they can do nothing.
Bob Rae and Mike Harris are as different as night and day and if you can't see that, I can't say anything that would help get you there. And last but not least, I beg to differ, the union members are not the "union". The union is the leadership and the larger the union the farther away from the decision making process is the membership. A union is not a democracy or it wouldn't exist. For example members must pay dues (they have no choice) and peer pressure is a major factor at all levels and most particularly when on strike,the rule is.... do as the leadership says or suffer the consequences of a "scab".
I'm not opposed to unions, but that doesn't change the reality of what they are and it doesn't change the fact that public sector unions should not have the right to strike.......in my humble opinion of course. I also note in your comments, when you call someone a friend it isn't necessarily a good thing.
I use the term "my friend"
I use the term "my friend" when I'm in a heated debate to remind myself that we're all entitled to our opinions. It is not meant to be condescending and I do apologize if it was taken that way.
I think maybe you have a different definition of "politician" than I.
For me, a politician does what they need to do to satisfy their own agenda and
/or the agenda of anyone they are representing. (the agenda of those they
represent is supposed to come first in gov't politics)
I maintain that there are politicians in private corporations and public corporations.
There are politicians in any organization, whether private or public.
Have you ever read Animal Farm or Lord of the Flies?? Wherever there is an organization of individuals, whether they be animals in a barn or children on a deserted island, when they organize, there will be politics.
If you're not following, read those books again and you'll see where I'm coming from.
In terms of the marketplace and public service...with all due respect you do not understand public service if you do not see the similarities with private market.
You say that in public service you get what the gov't gives you.
True, but do you know that gov't does indeed shop around for best quality service and price for the services they will render??
I'd go so far as to say that if they choose the cheaper and less quality product, it's because the taxpayers would give them grief if they didn't take the cheaper route!!
You say that a shut down that would happen in private sector doesn't happen in public sector? Not so.
It's called program cuts. Maybe not so newsworthy as a plant shutdown.
But speak to the families who have autistic kids that no longer having programming......or gov't daycares that can't take anymore children.....or long waits for MRIs or other medical treatments.
No the public sector never closes down completely....but it has to cut programs. Its the same freakin thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You question whether I saw the night/day difference between Bob Rae and Mike Harris....that was of particular concern to me and I read my comments five times to make sure that I wasnt equating them in any way!!!!
Trust me.........there is nothing in me that could do that!!
The comparison I drew was this.....Someone earlier said that Mike Harris thought he was instilling accountability and common sense when he was in power. He did that by slashing welfare rates by 21 percent, making radical changes to school curriculum etc. The writer said that now he is getting grief for that.
I pointed out that Bob Rae thought he was doing the same thing.....instilling
accountability and common sense in order to make things better for everyone (The Social Contract). He has continued to get grief from unions and the public about this as well.
That's the similarity I drew...........PLEASE do not assume anything more!!!
Your very last comments about unions are unsettling....I really hope you don't belong to a union because you really don't get it. But, sadly, if you are, I don't think you are alone.
You say that the larger the union, the farther you are from the decision making process. I'm sorry, "my friend", but that's just a big cop out.
Yes, there are politics within a union. But you , as a member, can be an active part of those politics.
A union executive does have some power to make decisions without taking the issue to the floor. But that is dictated by their by laws. The by laws are established and voted on by the membership WHO SHOW UP AT THE BY LAW MEETING!!!
All of the other issues go to the general membership meeting, which in my local, are the first Thursday of every month (widely puplicized) and they are voted on..........talk about democracy in action.
Someone recently said to me "i don't really trust our executive, but I trust the membership on the floor".
Please Elroy, if you work in a union environment, show up for those meetings.
You CHOSE yourself to accept a job in a union environment.........YOU chose that and you chose to accept the dues that come with it.
If you don't belong to a union Elroy.......then i dont want to talk to you about unions anymore cuz you just dont get it and will never have the chance to get it !! Choose another topic to inflame me :)